Projections for next season

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Port on the Kent
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Port on the Kent »

tonyhey wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 12:55 pm
Port on the Kent wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 12:48 pm That's the problem with having an extra league at this level, you would no longer be able to have two up as there's no way you would have six relegation places from the NL.

So what would happen is the winner of each league goes up, then four teams from each league go into a 12 team super play-off to decide the fourth. It means going up from the play-offs would be extremely unlikely and from a Southport perspective, seal our place.
So regionalise League 2 and NL in to North and South and have three relegation places from each League. I know this brings us back to the North/South divide again, but the majority of these teams are full time, so reducing the travel problems.
The premise of your argument was that the traveling is hard on part-time teams, but L2 and the NL is almost entirely professional.

There is no demand to reduce travel times in League 2 because these are clubs with budgets in the millions and full-time players who can travel to matches the day before.

I do agree that part-time Blyth going to part-time Banbury midweek is crackers, but there's no elegant solution.

Only tweak I can think of is to plan the fixtures with some care. The league could take each teams' six furthest away matches and schedule them exclusively on Saturdays in August, September, March and April where conditions are better. They could avoid planning them on FA Trophy/FA Cup days which are likely to be moved anyway.

You would still get the odd daft fixture due to postponements, but it would mean that the real treks are in the warmer months of an afternoon and you could have more local fixtures on the other dates.

No doubt that is too much effort for the league, mind.
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by tonyhey »

Port on the Kent wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 1:03 pm
tonyhey wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 12:55 pm
Port on the Kent wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 12:48 pm That's the problem with having an extra league at this level, you would no longer be able to have two up as there's no way you would have six relegation places from the NL.

So what would happen is the winner of each league goes up, then four teams from each league go into a 12 team super play-off to decide the fourth. It means going up from the play-offs would be extremely unlikely and from a Southport perspective, seal our place.
So regionalise League 2 and NL in to North and South and have three relegation places from each League. I know this brings us back to the North/South divide again, but the majority of these teams are full time, so reducing the travel problems.
The premise of your argument was that the traveling is hard on part-time teams, but L2 and the NL is almost entirely professional.

There is no demand to reduce travel times in League 2 because these are clubs with budgets in the millions and full-time players who can travel to matches the day before.

I do agree that part-time Blyth going to part-time Banbury midweek is crackers, but there's no elegant solution.

Only tweak I can think of is to plan the fixtures with some care. The league could take each teams' six furthest away matches and schedule them exclusively on Saturdays in August, September, March and April where conditions are better. They could avoid planning them on FA Trophy/FA Cup days which are likely to be moved anyway.

You would still get the odd daft fixture due to postponements, but it would mean that the real treks are in the warmer months of an afternoon and you could have more local fixtures on the other dates.

No doubt that is too much effort for the league, mind.
Good luck with that one, I doubt many of them are able to tie their own shoelaces.
Ronnie Hotdogs
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

Waiting until July for the fixtures is mental really. POTK's idea sounds far too sensible for the NL to ever consider.

Going to 24-team divisions at this level was madness.
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by portexileinbath »

Gambo's Left Boot wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 12:55 am If Brackley go up, it may make most sense to shift either Banbury or King's Lynn to NLS and move Chippenham and Bath over to NLN. That stops and club being isolated with no clear local neighbour.
Often, basic North/South split can be done with a line between the Severn and the Wash. There are six or seven NLN clubs on or below that line. As said before - some easier to go south from, some easier to go north.
Chippenham and Bath into NLN gets my very selfish and biased vote.
Gloucester man
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Gloucester man »

Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 2:01 pm Waiting until July for the fixtures is mental really. POTK's idea sounds far too sensible for the NL to ever consider.

Going to 24-team divisions at this level was madness.
We need a midland division
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Swedes
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Swedes »

Talk of going back to 3 leagues at this level is a massive backward step IMO, not least in the implications for promotion places as previously mentioned. Yes, there are some long trips in both NLN and NLS, and some clubs fare better off than others, but having 2 leagues starts to separate clubs capable of sustaining football at this level and potentially above from those who allow dogs into the ground and are extensions of social clubs. If a club can't meet the requirements to be at this level then they can resign from the league (or refuse promotion from a lower league), Vauxhall Motors being an example of this.

If Bishops Stortford do end up having to come into NLN then they should have no right to complain, they have had a few years of cushy short trips into London so may have saved a few bob knowing that they could have ended up back in NLN if they won promotion.
tonyhey
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by tonyhey »

Swedes wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 9:44 pm Talk of going back to 3 leagues at this level is a massive backward step IMO, not least in the implications for promotion places as previously mentioned. Yes, there are some long trips in both NLN and NLS, and some clubs fare better off than others, but having 2 leagues starts to separate clubs capable of sustaining football at this level and potentially above from those who allow dogs into the ground and are extensions of social clubs. If a club can't meet the requirements to be at this level then they can resign from the league (or refuse promotion from a lower league), Vauxhall Motors being an example of this.

If Bishops Stortford do end up having to come into NLN then they should have no right to complain, they have had a few years of cushy short trips into London so may have saved a few bob knowing that they could have ended up back in NLN if they won promotion.
And what @bout the 23 clubs who have to traipse down there?
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Swedes
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Swedes »

tonyhey wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 10:19 pm
Swedes wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 9:44 pm Talk of going back to 3 leagues at this level is a massive backward step IMO, not least in the implications for promotion places as previously mentioned. Yes, there are some long trips in both NLN and NLS, and some clubs fare better off than others, but having 2 leagues starts to separate clubs capable of sustaining football at this level and potentially above from those who allow dogs into the ground and are extensions of social clubs. If a club can't meet the requirements to be at this level then they can resign from the league (or refuse promotion from a lower league), Vauxhall Motors being an example of this.

If Bishops Stortford do end up having to come into NLN then they should have no right to complain, they have had a few years of cushy short trips into London so may have saved a few bob knowing that they could have ended up back in NLN if they won promotion.
And what @bout the 23 clubs who have to traipse down there?
What about it? It's only one game for each club, and every team will have to go there. In terms of travel time it's not much different than us travelling to King's Lynn.
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Marsh Harrier »

Port on the Kent wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 7:10 pm
PortInTheSouth wrote: Sun May 07, 2023 7:00 pm Worth pointing out there's also Hemel Hempstead and Braintree which are also "North" in terms of the NLS - Braintree most clubs will have to travel through Bishops Stortford however so would doubt it would be then that would move
Hemel are comfortably further south that Stortford, but Braintree are about the same.

Looks like Bishops or Braintree to me - as you say, Bishops is nearer most places.
According to grid reference checker Braintree is further North than Bishops Stortford, I would favour Bath and Chippenham in the North and move KLT to the South.
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Exiled Port Fan »

Could be worse, one NLS side will be travelling to Truro City next season during the Easter Bank Holiday.....
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Swedes »

Exiled Port Fan wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 6:33 am Could be worse, one NLS side will be travelling to Truro City next season during the Easter Bank Holiday.....
Except they're playing home games at Plymouth Parkway.

It's worth noting that the longest journey in National League South (Dover to Truro / Plymouth Parkway) is actually slightly longer than the one in National League North (Blyth Spartans to Gloucester).
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by PortInTheSouth »

Exiled Port Fan wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 6:33 am Could be worse, one NLS side will be travelling to Truro City next season during the Easter Bank Holiday.....
Easter bank holiday watching the Port on the South Coast would be great! Let's stick Truro and Torquay in the NLN
As I said, it is what it is. And what it is is a southern softie wind up merchant
Exiled Port Fan
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Exiled Port Fan »

PortInTheSouth wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 am
Exiled Port Fan wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 6:33 am Could be worse, one NLS side will be travelling to Truro City next season during the Easter Bank Holiday.....
Easter bank holiday watching the Port on the South Coast would be great! Let's stick Truro and Torquay in the NLN
Bath for some winter hot springs too!
portexileinbath
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by portexileinbath »

PortInTheSouth wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 am
Exiled Port Fan wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 6:33 am Could be worse, one NLS side will be travelling to Truro City next season during the Easter Bank Holiday.....
Easter bank holiday watching the Port on the South Coast would be great! Let's stick Truro and Torquay in the NLN
Now you are torquaying !. Always had good days out there watching footie.
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by portexileinbath »

Exiled Port Fan wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:41 am
PortInTheSouth wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 am
Exiled Port Fan wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 6:33 am Could be worse, one NLS side will be travelling to Truro City next season during the Easter Bank Holiday.....
Easter bank holiday watching the Port on the South Coast would be great! Let's stick Truro and Torquay in the NLN
Bath for some winter hot springs too!
I would be more than happy to act as a tour guide around the local pubs !.... there are 2 good cheese shops too😜
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Ronnie Hotdogs »

Gloucester man wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 7:15 pm
Ronnie Hotdogs wrote: Mon May 08, 2023 2:01 pm Waiting until July for the fixtures is mental really. POTK's idea sounds far too sensible for the NL to ever consider.

Going to 24-team divisions at this level was madness.
We need a midland division
Won't happen. You can't really have flat sticky-out bits in pyramids.
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PortInTheSouth
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by PortInTheSouth »

Looks like the National League will announce the leagues for next season on Monday at midday.

Almost certain it will be Oxford City if they fail to win the play offs, but it will be interesting to see which club(s) they move around if they get promoted. Also still appears that Peterborough Sports is a bit of a grey area with retaining their status at this level due to their ground.
As I said, it is what it is. And what it is is a southern softie wind up merchant
Marsh Harrier
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Marsh Harrier »

Sports chairman Tim Woodward has had a letter from the FA stating that they have passed their ground upgrade inspection and will remain in NLN (source Peterborough Sports twitter).
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PortInTheSouth
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by PortInTheSouth »

Marsh Harrier wrote: Sat May 13, 2023 9:36 pm Sports chairman Tim Woodward has had a letter from the FA stating that they have passed their ground upgrade inspection and will remain in NLN (source Peterborough Sports twitter).
Fantastic news
As I said, it is what it is. And what it is is a southern softie wind up merchant
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Re: Projections for next season

Post by Gambo's Left Boot »

Why is it fantastic news? There are too many teams who have got away with spending nothing on fans to chase promotion.
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