Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

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Ralphy Rylance
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Big Mac 1985 wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:56 am
Ralphy Rylance wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:51 am Any refunds should be 50% not the full price. The argument that the 2nd half was free to watch doesn't hold up as it wouldn't have been put on YouTube free of charge if people hadn't already paid for the stream.

Personally I won't be asking for £4.50 back from the club but I wouldn't blame York fans for asking.

That said I'll be reluctant to pay for another stream until the issue is resolved. Catch22 is that the club won't know the issue is resolved until the next big audience.
I didn't pay for the stream last night as I was out for the first half. I was delighted to see that the second half was free for me on YouTube. However, I did feel like a fraud so I will be donating £10 to the club.

Also, I really enjoyed Alan and James' commentary last night. Give me that than Martin Tyler's 'it's LIIIVVEEE' any day! Well done to the media team last night. They were put in a regrettable situation and made the best out of it. Coverage was brilliant on YouTube.
Fair play to you.
Yes the media team are excellent. It's a shame the streaming company are letting everyone down.
YTT
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by YTT »

On the streaming issue front i think our coverage when accessible is as good if not better than most in terms of picture quality and the commentary is good and felt sorry for Alan last night constantly apologising for the technical issues.

I kept an eye on the viewing figures last night and i think we peaked at about 1900. Won't be many bigger than York and we need to get a solution to this issue as streaming looks like being in place for most of this season.

So change of provider or guaranteed increased bandwidth is required ASAP as i'm sure we all understand the volunteers are doing their best and we have to make the best of bad scenario.
bnek
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by bnek »

Big Mac 1985 wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:56 am
Ralphy Rylance wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:51 am Any refunds should be 50% not the full price. The argument that the 2nd half was free to watch doesn't hold up as it wouldn't have been put on YouTube free of charge if people hadn't already paid for the stream.

Personally I won't be asking for £4.50 back from the club but I wouldn't blame York fans for asking.

That said I'll be reluctant to pay for another stream until the issue is resolved. Catch22 is that the club won't know the issue is resolved until the next big audience.
I didn't pay for the stream last night as I was out for the first half. I was delighted to see that the second half was free for me on YouTube. However, I did feel like a fraud so I will be donating £10 to the club.

Also, I really enjoyed Alan and James' commentary last night. Give me that than Martin Tyler's 'it's LIIIVVEEE' any day! Well done to the media team last night. They were put in a regrettable situation and made the best out of it. Coverage was brilliant on YouTube.
Agreed, excellent commentary. You actually felt they were commentating on the game rather than it being a chat show ala Sky and BT.
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Swedes
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Swedes »

Ralphy Rylance wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:51 am Any refunds should be 50% not the full price. The argument that the 2nd half was free to watch doesn't hold up as it wouldn't have been put on YouTube free of charge if people hadn't already paid for the stream.

Personally I won't be asking for £4.50 back from the club but I wouldn't blame York fans for asking.

That said I'll be reluctant to pay for another stream until the issue is resolved. Catch22 is that the club won't know the issue is resolved until the next big audience.
For games against lesser supported sides, I can't see there being a problem. I wouldn't blame people for not paying for the stream against the likes of Chester or Darlington, as there is no guarantee of it working. Might as well wait for a few minutes, watch the feedback on here or on social media, and if it's not running expect to be able to watch the second half on YouTube for nothing. If it is running ok, then it takes two minutes to sign up, and you've missed the first 7 minutes.
Slightbreeze
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Slightbreeze »

As one of many York fans let down by the stream yesterday,
I contacted your Club Secretary in good faith earlier with a considered view from my professional experience as a Test Professional and Manager of over 30 years.

Let me say straight away that my own club would get exactly the same response had we been the home team and indeed, there were some observations made after similar problems, albeit not as bad, at our first attempt.

I said that whilst his genuine and general apology last night was well received by our supporter base at York, along with those of your commentators (who were very good btw, as was the eventual quality on YT), this isn’t the first bad experience of this nature we have had as York fans (not your clubs fault of course), but nor it would seem, is it the first poor experience for yourselves

While it appears the issues are most likely with with system overload and in many respects that is the providers responsibility for not doing effective volume and performance testing, it is always a clients responsibility to accept any system development and therefore, the client’s (in this case your clubs) responsibility when selling a service to customers, on the basis they have accepted it as fit for purpose.

The testing should be done in advance (not on the day), and should be be a regular test. There should be a baseline number of users (probably based on a ‘normal’ game), and then scaling up done so that it caters for sufficient capacity from a likely bigger audience. There are ways to automatically inject load, in this case users, and any decent provider should know that.

So both the provider and your club are responsible. It also took rather a long time to get this out onto You Tube though I appreciate you were working on best endeavours

Appreciate you were all very upset yourselves and will probably blame the solution provider. In part as I’ve explained that’s correct, but certainly not in whole morally or commercially. It’s a shame that you run the risk of losing money on this.

I’ve yet to have a reply, even an acknowledgement. No sign anywhere of the promised email address to contact to resolve this in the way of refunds.

That all said, wish you well with future attempts and a successful season. On last nights evidence, you’ll be towards the top end of the league and probable play off candidates.
TrickyDicky
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:10 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by TrickyDicky »

Slightbreeze wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:59 pm As one of many York fans let down by the stream yesterday,
I contacted your Club Secretary in good faith earlier with a considered view from my professional experience as a Test Professional and Manager of over 30 years.

Let me say straight away that my own club would get exactly the same response had we been the home team and indeed, there were some observations made after similar problems, albeit not as bad, at our first attempt.

I said that whilst his genuine and general apology last night was well received by our supporter base at York, along with those of your commentators (who were very good btw, as was the eventual quality on YT), this isn’t the first bad experience of this nature we have had as York fans (not your clubs fault of course), but nor it would seem, is it the first poor experience for yourselves

While it appears the issues are most likely with with system overload and in many respects that is the providers responsibility for not doing effective volume and performance testing, it is always a clients responsibility to accept any system development and therefore, the client’s (in this case your clubs) responsibility when selling a service to customers, on the basis they have accepted it as fit for purpose.

The testing should be done in advance (not on the day), and should be be a regular test. There should be a baseline number of users (probably based on a ‘normal’ game), and then scaling up done so that it caters for sufficient capacity from a likely bigger audience. There are ways to automatically inject load, in this case users, and any decent provider should know that.

So both the provider and your club are responsible. It also took rather a long time to get this out onto You Tube though I appreciate you were working on best endeavours

Appreciate you were all very upset yourselves and will probably blame the solution provider. In part as I’ve explained that’s correct, but certainly not in whole morally or commercially. It’s a shame that you run the risk of losing money on this.

I’ve yet to have a reply, even an acknowledgement. No sign anywhere of the promised email address to contact to resolve this in the way of refunds.

That all said, wish you well with future attempts and a successful season. On last nights evidence, you’ll be towards the top end of the league and probable play off candidates.
Thank you for your fair and reasonable response which is gratefully received . Nothing personal to you, obviously a fair minded true supporter no doubt , who like us is supporting a team stuck in a seemingly eternal limbo of mediocrity, but I do have an axe to grind with your club over the funding issues amongst the conference teams , based on the knowledge that you were aware of the Ben Godfrey 10% clause of £2+ million IMO I think your club were happy to shaft the rest of us to give yourselves a massive financial advantage and effectively increase your chances of buying your way out of the conference north . On last night’s evidence I would say that’s a very strong possibility but for me you’ll now always be the scabs in what was/ is a very precarious situation especially for those of us with limited resources. A good club who made a very bad decision to opt out and for me forever tarnish their reputation.
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cavjj
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by cavjj »

Slightbreeze wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:59 pm As one of many York fans let down by the stream yesterday,
I contacted your Club Secretary in good faith earlier with a considered view from my professional experience as a Test Professional and Manager of over 30 years.

Let me say straight away that my own club would get exactly the same response had we been the home team and indeed, there were some observations made after similar problems, albeit not as bad, at our first attempt.

I said that whilst his genuine and general apology last night was well received by our supporter base at York, along with those of your commentators (who were very good btw, as was the eventual quality on YT), this isn’t the first bad experience of this nature we have had as York fans (not your clubs fault of course), but nor it would seem, is it the first poor experience for yourselves

While it appears the issues are most likely with with system overload and in many respects that is the providers responsibility for not doing effective volume and performance testing, it is always a clients responsibility to accept any system development and therefore, the client’s (in this case your clubs) responsibility when selling a service to customers, on the basis they have accepted it as fit for purpose.

The testing should be done in advance (not on the day), and should be be a regular test. There should be a baseline number of users (probably based on a ‘normal’ game), and then scaling up done so that it caters for sufficient capacity from a likely bigger audience. There are ways to automatically inject load, in this case users, and any decent provider should know that.

So both the provider and your club are responsible. It also took rather a long time to get this out onto You Tube though I appreciate you were working on best endeavours

Appreciate you were all very upset yourselves and will probably blame the solution provider. In part as I’ve explained that’s correct, but certainly not in whole morally or commercially. It’s a shame that you run the risk of losing money on this.

I’ve yet to have a reply, even an acknowledgement. No sign anywhere of the promised email address to contact to resolve this in the way of refunds.

That all said, wish you well with future attempts and a successful season. On last nights evidence, you’ll be towards the top end of the league and probable play off candidates.
Bet you’re fun at parties.
CFORD-SIX
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by CFORD-SIX »

Slightbreeze wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:59 pm As one of many York fans let down by the stream yesterday,
I contacted your Club Secretary in good faith earlier with a considered view from my professional experience as a Test Professional and Manager of over 30 years.

Let me say straight away that my own club would get exactly the same response had we been the home team and indeed, there were some observations made after similar problems, albeit not as bad, at our first attempt.

I said that whilst his genuine and general apology last night was well received by our supporter base at York, along with those of your commentators (who were very good btw, as was the eventual quality on YT), this isn’t the first bad experience of this nature we have had as York fans (not your clubs fault of course), but nor it would seem, is it the first poor experience for yourselves

While it appears the issues are most likely with with system overload and in many respects that is the providers responsibility for not doing effective volume and performance testing, it is always a clients responsibility to accept any system development and therefore, the client’s (in this case your clubs) responsibility when selling a service to customers, on the basis they have accepted it as fit for purpose.

The testing should be done in advance (not on the day), and should be be a regular test. There should be a baseline number of users (probably based on a ‘normal’ game), and then scaling up done so that it caters for sufficient capacity from a likely bigger audience. There are ways to automatically inject load, in this case users, and any decent provider should know that.

So both the provider and your club are responsible. It also took rather a long time to get this out onto You Tube though I appreciate you were working on best endeavours

Appreciate you were all very upset yourselves and will probably blame the solution provider. In part as I’ve explained that’s correct, but certainly not in whole morally or commercially. It’s a shame that you run the risk of losing money on this.

I’ve yet to have a reply, even an acknowledgement. No sign anywhere of the promised email address to contact to resolve this in the way of refunds.

That all said, wish you well with future attempts and a successful season. On last nights evidence, you’ll be towards the top end of the league and probable play off candidates.
FYI the following is now posted on the SFC official website:

As most people are aware, we experienced some technical issues with our live stream for the game against York City.
The stream had been tested, as we do every game, and for those that were logged on early to see the preview and the pre-match Remembrance Tribute you could see that everything was working well.
However , as soon as the game kicked off the stream stopped working.
We were aware we would have a bigger audience than usual, but we were assured by our streaming provider that they could cope with whatever the demand would be. This appeared not to be the case, and we are in dialogue with the provider to find out why we suffered the downtime that we did.
We made the decision to switch over to You Tube as quickly as we could , and our media team pulled out all the stops to get the switch made as quickly as possible.
It was disappointing to receive abusive phone calls and messages during the game when our team, who are all volunteers, were working hard to find a fix. This is not of course a situation that any of us have asked for, we would all prefer it if fans were allowed in to the ground, and we have had to very quickly hit the ground running with little, if any, time or assistance to prepare. The volunteers are doing the best that they can in difficult circumstances, particularly as the issue may be with something out of their control in any event. The Club will be looking very carefully at the nature and origin of the abusive messages that were received.
As indicated, discussions with the streaming provider are ongoing as to the cause of the problem, and all options re future streaming are being explored
We have received some kind, understanding and supportive e-mails since this occurred, and we thank people who have taken the trouble to write to us. We have now set up a designated e-mail address for people who have any comments or questions about any of our streams in the future and they can now be sent to streaming@southportfc.net
Slightbreeze
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:20 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Slightbreeze »

CFORD-SIX wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 9:45 pm
Slightbreeze wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:59 pm As one of many York fans let down by the stream yesterday,
I contacted your Club Secretary in good faith earlier with a considered view from my professional experience as a Test Professional and Manager of over 30 years.

Let me say straight away that my own club would get exactly the same response had we been the home team and indeed, there were some observations made after similar problems, albeit not as bad, at our first attempt.

I said that whilst his genuine and general apology last night was well received by our supporter base at York, along with those of your commentators (who were very good btw, as was the eventual quality on YT), this isn’t the first bad experience of this nature we have had as York fans (not your clubs fault of course), but nor it would seem, is it the first poor experience for yourselves

While it appears the issues are most likely with with system overload and in many respects that is the providers responsibility for not doing effective volume and performance testing, it is always a clients responsibility to accept any system development and therefore, the client’s (in this case your clubs) responsibility when selling a service to customers, on the basis they have accepted it as fit for purpose.

The testing should be done in advance (not on the day), and should be be a regular test. There should be a baseline number of users (probably based on a ‘normal’ game), and then scaling up done so that it caters for sufficient capacity from a likely bigger audience. There are ways to automatically inject load, in this case users, and any decent provider should know that.

So both the provider and your club are responsible. It also took rather a long time to get this out onto You Tube though I appreciate you were working on best endeavours

Appreciate you were all very upset yourselves and will probably blame the solution provider. In part as I’ve explained that’s correct, but certainly not in whole morally or commercially. It’s a shame that you run the risk of losing money on this.

I’ve yet to have a reply, even an acknowledgement. No sign anywhere of the promised email address to contact to resolve this in the way of refunds.

That all said, wish you well with future attempts and a successful season. On last nights evidence, you’ll be towards the top end of the league and probable play off candidates.
FYI the following is now posted on the SFC official website:

As most people are aware, we experienced some technical issues with our live stream for the game against York City.
The stream had been tested, as we do every game, and for those that were logged on early to see the preview and the pre-match Remembrance Tribute you could see that everything was working well.
However , as soon as the game kicked off the stream stopped working.
We were aware we would have a bigger audience than usual, but we were assured by our streaming provider that they could cope with whatever the demand would be. This appeared not to be the case, and we are in dialogue with the provider to find out why we suffered the downtime that we did.
We made the decision to switch over to You Tube as quickly as we could , and our media team pulled out all the stops to get the switch made as quickly as possible.
It was disappointing to receive abusive phone calls and messages during the game when our team, who are all volunteers, were working hard to find a fix. This is not of course a situation that any of us have asked for, we would all prefer it if fans were allowed in to the ground, and we have had to very quickly hit the ground running with little, if any, time or assistance to prepare. The volunteers are doing the best that they can in difficult circumstances, particularly as the issue may be with something out of their control in any event. The Club will be looking very carefully at the nature and origin of the abusive messages that were received.
As indicated, discussions with the streaming provider are ongoing as to the cause of the problem, and all options re future streaming are being explored
We have received some kind, understanding and supportive e-mails since this occurred, and we thank people who have taken the trouble to write to us. We have now set up a designated e-mail address for people who have any comments or questions about any of our streams in the future and they can now be sent to streaming@southportfc.net
Thank you for the information and that’s very helpful. The root cause of the problem as I said earlier, IMO is very likely to be the scalability, regardless of what the provider is saying. If they’ve anything about them, they can easily simulate load if they are serious about their own clients.

Anyway, thank you again. Much appreciated and you’re all quite right to be upset about any abusive messages. That’s not on and thankfully (like most clubs), that’s a very small minority and most certainly not indicative of proper York supporters (same as your own excellent club). Frustration is one thing, abuse another altogether.

Good luck!
Sam
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:08 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Sam »

Slightbreeze wrote: Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:59 pm
While it appears the issues are most likely with with system overload and in many respects that is the providers responsibility for not doing effective volume and performance testing, it is always a clients responsibility to accept any system development and therefore, the client’s (in this case your clubs) responsibility when selling a service to customers, on the basis they have accepted it as fit for purpose.

The testing should be done in advance (not on the day), and should be be a regular test. There should be a baseline number of users (probably based on a ‘normal’ game), and then scaling up done so that it caters for sufficient capacity from a likely bigger audience. There are ways to automatically inject load, in this case users, and any decent provider should know that.
The provider has the capability to load test their services, the club however will not. The club will have presumably been told they have tested this, and when you looking at the providers website theres no reason to doubt that.

Without demanding to see how they've designed the system, seeing their dashboards, alarms etc the club can only really take their word for it. There is always an element of trust in any supply chain.

That being said this isn't the first time its happened this season, lessons clearly weren't learnt from the first time either by the club or the provider. I would be interested to see who the other teams use, especially those with a larger audience anyway.

But I would continue to be reticent at using a company based in America, so support will always be an issue, who's case studies at first read don't really align to what service we want and are the first result in google based purely on the SEO they are getting from a good domain name.
Slightbreeze
Posts: 3
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Slightbreeze »

When there are recurring problems with a system provider (especially for anything that is then going to be offered publicly at cost), reviewing a design and test results is exactly what any client should do. Most certainly when there have been previous issues and not helped in support terms, if the provider is based offshore.

As I said before, the root cause of the issues is clearly a provider/supplier issue, but just relying on good faith in the face of ongoing issues, and when customers believe they are buying a service which will work (not might), that is naive at best and incompetent at worst
alex russellfan
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Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by alex russellfan »

Second half good football from both sides but York were more composed and always looked more dangerous, though an awful way to lose. We are still settling down and will be better when George Howell is fully fit, I think port have a good chance to make the play offs this season. hope we do
John Glendenning
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:13 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by John Glendenning »

As I wrote during the first half problems on this thread, there was a problem with bandwidth. Whatever assurances have been made by the provider, the service capacity allocated was not sufficient, as it proved not to be during the early stages of at least one other match stream. I have now checked out the link to the service provider (thank you Sam). A reasonably smart and professional looking website which, as "shop windows" go has been well dressed. In common with all shop windows, the objective is always to draw in customers and this provider has obviously given a goodly amount of care and attention to it.

The "but" here is that ANY service provided for a fee should be responsive to the customer should problems occur whilst it is being actively used. From what I gather from statements already made, this does not appear to have been the case. If our volunteers, great and good the lot; can not access real-time technical assistance, then it is NOT a service in the true meaning of the word (in business at least). There should be an ACTIVE and immediately responsive help desk with a wakeful and technically efficient human being on the other end. If this is not provided and can not be promised in future, then the club really do need to cancel the contract (with any forward payment refunded in full).

Our club has done its very best to facilitate the live stream. The commentary has been top draw and I KNOW that everyone involved with the stream and with ensuring match day can happen have gone way above and beyond the "call of duty". A very large and fulsome THANK YOU to all. You are dudes (and dudesses) of the VERY highest order.

As for the match, I thought that our team played reasonably well - very well in patches. That York (like Boston before them) managed the match adequately and gained two goals through guile and low craftiness of the kind we are generally impressed with when it is our team doing it. Both free kicks were - imo - played for and given away through inexperience. It was good to see that both of our goals came from open play and especially nice to see young Master Watson get off the league scoring mark after our as yet unseen (by me) opener from a player that I am confident will score many for us.
Exiled
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:42 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Exiled »

mark thomas wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:52 pm Highlights John

https://www.thenationalleague.org.uk/club-info/3976050
Not sure who it is in the wall that didn't jump for their second? It seemed to go just over his head...
Bobby
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:38 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Bobby »

John Glendenning wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:37 pm The "but" here is that ANY service provided for a fee should be responsive to the customer should problems occur whilst it is being actively used. From what I gather from statements already made, this does not appear to have been the case. If our volunteers, great and good the lot; can not access real-time technical assistance, then it is NOT a service in the true meaning of the word (in business at least). There should be an ACTIVE and immediately responsive help desk with a wakeful and technically efficient human being on the other end. If this is not provided and can not be promised in future, then the club really do need to cancel the contract (with any forward payment refunded in full).
Looking at the providers website, they offer three pricing plans. The club would have needed to be on the "Premium" plan in order to accommodate the demand for the stream. If they were then the streaming provider hasn't supplied the service paid for and I'm sure, with the clubs legal expertise, that they would be well aware of that fact now.
Ste_B
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:19 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Ste_B »

Interesting to note yet another goal scored from a long throw...
Hat Trick Patrick
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:14 am

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Hat Trick Patrick »

Not sure who it is in the wall that didn't jump for their second? It seemed to go just over his head...


You get a better view of both their free kicks from behind the goal here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t1tqzO6rZ0
Sandgrounder SE
Posts: 87
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:14 pm

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by Sandgrounder SE »

Who filmed this?
ripple
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Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:25 am

Re: Southport 2-3 York City - Match Thread

Post by ripple »

One would assume York City, judging by the YouTube handle
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