Liam Watson post match

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John Glendenning
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by John Glendenning »

becbee wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:58 pm http://www.doverathletic.com/news/chair ... ague-board

Very interesting article.
A principled gent who by stepping down and allowing himself to speak out is doing the right thing for all imo. I notice that he leaves the proverbial door open (by not insulting or slinging mud) for other board members to speak out either within meetings or by joining him on the outside. I concur with Nollie's dislike of "zombie football" and with his sentiments regarding the league not continuing. I remain proud of our club and of our manager and board.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Sandgrounder SE »

What happens if the season is aborted? Furloughing can’t continue indefinitely, so can we keep the nucleus of a team together or will we just have to start again from scratch when we are able to resume?
Some scientist said today it will be ‘a few years’ before big sporting events resume. Even if crowds are allowed back at our level sometime this year they are likely still to be socially distanced. Is semi-pro football as we have known it sustainable in these conditions? It’s very worrying.
Yes, I know the health issue is paramount at the moment, but we can’t just not think about or plan for a future when Covid is not so dangerous.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Redrobe fan »

I heard on the radio today (only LBC) that the Gov. draft plan, if all goes well on vaccination and hospital numbers, is for Schools to go back on March 8, for non essential shops to open in April, and outdoor sports to be permitted sometime in May. I didnt hear anything about large spectator events. Anyway my point is that apparently there is a draft plan for the resumption of activities and they weren’t talking in years.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Redrobe fan wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:49 pm I heard on the radio today (only LBC) that the Gov. draft plan, if all goes well on vaccination and hospital numbers, is for Schools to go back on March 8, for non essential shops to open in April, and outdoor sports to be permitted sometime in May. I didnt hear anything about large spectator events. Anyway my point is that apparently there is a draft plan for the resumption of activities and they weren’t talking in years.
Given the current government's track record during this pandemic are you sure they didn't say "daft plan"?
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by John Glendenning »

Sandgrounder SE wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:17 pm What happens if the season is aborted? Furloughing can’t continue indefinitely, so can we keep the nucleus of a team together or will we just have to start again from scratch when we are able to resume?
Some scientist said today it will be ‘a few years’ before big sporting events resume. Even if crowds are allowed back at our level sometime this year they are likely still to be socially distanced. Is semi-pro football as we have known it sustainable in these conditions? It’s very worrying.
Yes, I know the health issue is paramount at the moment, but we can’t just not think about or plan for a future when Covid is not so dangerous.
You are right SSE, of course. The future does need considering and planning needs to be on-going. What few basics I know of epidemiology informs that now this "novel" virus is "out there", it will effectively remain "out there" - just like other less harmful Corona virus - (many so called common cold virus are from the same family). Looking at the infection figures and the proportion of infected individuals who go on to develop serious illness, it appears to be the case that the majority of those who are infected pass through the infection process with few or even no symptoms. This is what makes the virus such a pain in the arse and together with its high rate of contagion, so dangerous for a significant minority who might go on to develop serious illness requiring specialist intervention. This is without considering a significant minority who, whilst often displaying only mild symptoms once infected, go on to develop what is described as "long Covid" which carries health and life consequences that because of problems in identification, we are only just being able to study.

Taking in to account all of the above gloomy stuff, as a Nation, we are now engaged in a process designed to damp down community transmission rates (through lock-down measures) whilst at the same time, producing via vaccination an increasing degree of immunity within the community: (refuse to use Johnson's "Herd immunity" catch phrase). The science informs that by reducing the population concentration of potential hosts (for the virus), we reduce its incidence and prevalence within the community. In this, we are deploying the same logic as that which lays behind the annual Flu jab (for those considered vulnerable) and for vaccinations against the likes of Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Just so long as the vaccination program has a wide take up rate, community transmission and the much feted "R" rate will come down; ideally into single figures. We only need to look at the resurgence enjoyed by measles in the population when a small but significant minority began refusing to have their children vaccinated based on "concerns" about the MMR vaccine to see what can happen. Viruses have evolved alongside us and are not going away in a hurry.

We need the R rate to be down, preferably in single figures, as I have already said, but more likely it will remain higher. Just so long as we get it down below the three figure level and maintain that, much of what we considered as "normal" life (prior to all this tragic stuff) should return - only we MUST all remain "mindful" of such matters as ventilation, hand hygiene and overcrowding. Even these "restriction" of day to day habits will gradually ease as the immunity offered by the on-going vaccination process (needs to become a yearly event as in the Flu jab) further reduces the saturation of virus within the population.

The main factor that makes Covid 19 such a threat is its transmission rate. It is a HIGHLY infection virus, more so than many others as it requires a relatively low viral load to get a grip on its host (you and I).

I think that football at our level will be able to return next season and that supporters will be able to return too. You are right that there might still be certain restrictions needed to maintain safety including a degree of social distancing, at least for the Winter portion of the season. With this said, provided community transmission (R rate) reduces in the manner I describe above, even the imperative for distancing measures will diminish over time. I think that such innovations as the membership system and streaming options (whilst restriction on crowd numbers remain) will all continue to be necessary and valuable for the survival of small clubs at our level.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Redrobe fan »

Please dont attribute ‘Herd Immunity’ to Boris! The term ‘Herd immunity’ has unfortunately been hijacked by politicians and journalists who dont know what it really means. It is an established term in the public health world. Basically, herd immunity exists when there are so many ‘immunes’ and so few ‘susceptibles’ in the population that ‘infecteds’ are unlikely to come into contact with enough ‘susceptibles’ and transmit the pathogen to them, to sustain the epidemic.
Last edited by Redrobe fan on Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

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Redrobe fan wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 9:56 pm Please dont attribute ‘Herd Immunity’ to Boris! The term ‘Herd immunity’ has unfortunately been hijacked by politicians and journalists who dont know what it really means.
No, attribute it to Dominic Cummings who knew exactly what it meant and how deadly a 'Plan A' it was.

You CAN attribute this one to Boris though: “I was at a hospital the other night where I think there were a few coronavirus patients and I shook hands with everybody, you will be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands,”
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Redrobe fan »

Herd immunity is the objective of all vaccination programmes.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by GeorgeCarrExcavation »

John Glendenning wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 8:17 pm
Sandgrounder SE wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 7:17 pm What happens if the season is aborted? Furloughing can’t continue indefinitely, so can we keep the nucleus of a team together or will we just have to start again from scratch when we are able to resume?
Some scientist said today it will be ‘a few years’ before big sporting events resume. Even if crowds are allowed back at our level sometime this year they are likely still to be socially distanced. Is semi-pro football as we have known it sustainable in these conditions? It’s very worrying.
Yes, I know the health issue is paramount at the moment, but we can’t just not think about or plan for a future when Covid is not so dangerous.
You are right SSE, of course. The future does need considering and planning needs to be on-going. What few basics I know of epidemiology informs that now this "novel" virus is "out there", it will effectively remain "out there" - just like other less harmful Corona virus - (many so called common cold virus are from the same family). Looking at the infection figures and the proportion of infected individuals who go on to develop serious illness, it appears to be the case that the majority of those who are infected pass through the infection process with few or even no symptoms. This is what makes the virus such a pain in the arse and together with its high rate of contagion, so dangerous for a significant minority who might go on to develop serious illness requiring specialist intervention. This is without considering a significant minority who, whilst often displaying only mild symptoms once infected, go on to develop what is described as "long Covid" which carries health and life consequences that because of problems in identification, we are only just being able to study.

Taking in to account all of the above gloomy stuff, as a Nation, we are now engaged in a process designed to damp down community transmission rates (through lock-down measures) whilst at the same time, producing via vaccination an increasing degree of immunity within the community: (refuse to use Johnson's "Herd immunity" catch phrase). The science informs that by reducing the population concentration of potential hosts (for the virus), we reduce its incidence and prevalence within the community. In this, we are deploying the same logic as that which lays behind the annual Flu jab (for those considered vulnerable) and for vaccinations against the likes of Measles, Mumps and Rubella. Just so long as the vaccination program has a wide take up rate, community transmission and the much feted "R" rate will come down; ideally into single figures. We only need to look at the resurgence enjoyed by measles in the population when a small but significant minority began refusing to have their children vaccinated based on "concerns" about the MMR vaccine to see what can happen. Viruses have evolved alongside us and are not going away in a hurry.

We need the R rate to be down, preferably in single figures, as I have already said, but more likely it will remain higher. Just so long as we get it down below the three figure level and maintain that, much of what we considered as "normal" life (prior to all this tragic stuff) should return - only we MUST all remain "mindful" of such matters as ventilation, hand hygiene and overcrowding. Even these "restriction" of day to day habits will gradually ease as the immunity offered by the on-going vaccination process (needs to become a yearly event as in the Flu jab) further reduces the saturation of virus within the population.

The main factor that makes Covid 19 such a threat is its transmission rate. It is a HIGHLY infection virus, more so than many others as it requires a relatively low viral load to get a grip on its host (you and I).

I think that football at our level will be able to return next season and that supporters will be able to return too. You are right that there might still be certain restrictions needed to maintain safety including a degree of social distancing, at least for the Winter portion of the season. With this said, provided community transmission (R rate) reduces in the manner I describe above, even the imperative for distancing measures will diminish over time. I think that such innovations as the membership system and streaming options (whilst restriction on crowd numbers remain) will all continue to be necessary and valuable for the survival of small clubs at our level.
The R rate needs to be less than single figures.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by John Glendenning »

"The R rate needs to be less than single figures.

You are right, my mixing up of terms. R rate needs to be less than "1". It is cases per 100,000 that need to be down to single figures or less than three figures at least.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by george »

Yes the season should be scrapped, and looking at the league table (anybody remember that)let's hope it is
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Phila9037 »

All of this could have been avoided if certain teams had not voted for our league being classed as elite

We would have suspended/cancelled the season months ago like the leagues below
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Redrobe fan wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:19 pm Herd immunity is the objective of all vaccination programmes.
Yes, but this lot wanted herd immunity long before a vaccine had been discovered.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by yellowfever »

We are no where near solving the farcical but serious issues that face SFC this season, but to talk of further social distancing and restrictions of crowd numbers into next season (regardless of the league we'll be playing football in) just won't work.
Fans have to be able to attend matches at this level.End of..That's the problem we are having now and what non league football is all about.
No if's but's or maybe's.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Redrobe fan »

Ralphy Rylance wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:33 am
Redrobe fan wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:19 pm Herd immunity is the objective of all vaccination programmes.
Yes, but this lot wanted herd immunity long before a vaccine had been discovered.
Yes. Sweden adopted that policy; relying on enough people getting the disease and then recovering with immunity. They’ve since changed direction. I dont think that anyone envisaged the level of transmission and severity of symptoms that emerged, particularly in care homes. Without a vaccine theres only environmental heath measures such as hand and surface washing, ventilation, masks, selective closures and social distancing. Its easy with hindsight to be critical. My own major criticism (after 50 years in the business) is that they didnt intervene early enough, or radically enough, in care homes, nursing homes and hospitals.
They ought to have warned people at the beginning that in managing an epidemic you have to change policy direction as the data emerges. Sometimes this can seem daft to an outsider.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Redrobe fan »

In a major epidemic, sometimes, society can start to break down and lawlessness can result. Its therefore important to maintain institutions. I think thats why elite football has been allowed to continue; as some sort of ‘opium for the masses’ as Oscar would have said.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Sandgrounder SE »

I think you'll find it was Marx "Die Religion... ist das Opium des Volkes" .
I often think watching Southport might be a better experience on drugs.
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Redrobe fan wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:30 pm Its easy with hindsight to be critical.
Nothing to do with hindsight.
It's been plainly obvious that the government's response has been inadequate right from the start and all the way through this pandemic, led by a PM who boasted about shaking hands with Covid patients. They should be facing corporate manslaughter charges. Instead they're lining the pockets of their chums with our money.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... rus-crisis
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/12/22/the- ... to-emerge/
https://bylinetimes.com/2021/02/05/cron ... contracts/
https://bylinetimes.com/2021/02/01/how- ... -disaster/
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Ralphy Rylance »

Redrobe fan wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:35 pm In a major epidemic, sometimes, society can start to break down and lawlessness can result. Its therefore important to maintain institutions. I think thats why elite football has been allowed to continue; as some sort of ‘opium for the masses’ as Oscar would have said.
Or George Orwell "Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbours, films, football, beer and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult"
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Re: Liam Watson post match

Post by Sandgrounder SE »

I thought that this was a football forum. Plenty of other places you can slag off the government.
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